The Psychology of Money: How Understanding Your Biases Ends Financial Struggle With Kassi Hyde

Kassi Hyde (00:00)

There are plenty of people who would like to retire early. As I say, it's not retirement; it's financial freedom. It's the ability to work very hard at a job you get weary of and be able to find another, more fulfilling job that makes less money.

Jason Montoya (00:54)

Welcome to an inspirational people interview on the Share Life podcast. I'm Jason Scott Montoya, and in this episode, I'm speaking with Kassi Hyde, a wealth management advisor at Apollon Peachtree Corners. Kassi, say hello.

Kassi Hyde (01:06)

Hi.

Jason Montoya (01:15)

Kassi and I were in a leadership mastermind together in 2012, so 13 years ago. Our lives have changed quite a bit since then, but we originally met in 2011 at the Gwinnett Chamber of Commerce. For most of my freelancing journey, which I started in 2014, I've been working with Kassi's father, Thomas Burge, to do my taxes every year. And no, he's not taking any more customers; I was one of the last. Now, you worked for your dad for about 10 years. You're originally from Southern California, and you've been in the financial planning industry for over two decades. You're currently a wealth management advisor at Apollon, a fee-based strategic wealth planning firm, and you're also a wife and mother of two teenage boys. Kassi, to get us started, tell us a little bit more about you and your story.

Kassi Hyde (01:54)

Sure. As you mentioned, I’m originally from Southern California. I lived there until about middle school age.

Jason Montoya (02:00)

Which part?

Kassi Hyde (02:09)

Escondido, just outside of San Diego, and then in Laguna Niguel as well. I've been here in Georgia for about 30 years, so I'd say it's home.

Jason Montoya (02:13)

That's how I feel. I'm from Arizona. I moved here in 2005, and I've been here just about as long as I was in Arizona. It definitely feels like home now.

Kassi Hyde (02:26)

I ended up marrying a native to Georgia, which is fun. We've got two teenage boys who keep us very busy with lacrosse. We love to golf, be outdoors, and travel—all the fun stuff you get to do as a family when you can find the time.

Jason Montoya (02:43)

What are some places you've gone?

Kassi Hyde (02:46)

Travel-wise, we’re just getting started on the international front, which makes me very excited. I definitely have been bitten by the travel bug. We love Costa Rica. Belize is one of our favorite places. We're planning a trip to the Mediterranean soon, so I'm very excited about that. And honestly, we sometimes forget we need to visit more states in the good old U.S., so we’re trying to do a little of that. This coming weekend, we'll be in Boston for the NCAA Final Four and championship for lacrosse.

Jason Montoya (03:17)

Wow, congrats. That's exciting. How did you all get into lacrosse? It's becoming more popular, but it wasn't anything I knew about when I was younger.

Kassi Hyde (03:31)

Me neither. Our kids started when they were around nine. We live in Forsyth County, which is very much a lacrosse county. We were introduced to it when they were kids, had no idea what we were watching, and they've just loved it and never stopped since. My oldest is playing in high school now for Lambert High School, which just won the state championship. So, very exciting stuff.

Jason Montoya (03:42)

Now, how did you get into financial planning? Was that the plan all along?

Kassi Hyde (04:06)

Not exactly. I was managing multifamily housing for a couple of properties in Buckhead. As you mentioned, my father is a CPA and he's been a financial planner for years. I knew it was time for a change. There are a lot of similarities; when you're managing properties, it's like running a business. I really enjoyed working with people more directly, so I thought I'd give it a try and haven't looked back. I got my background in insurance when I first started and earned my CHFC designation, which is very similar to a CFP but has a heavier focus on insurance. That's what got me started, and I really enjoy it.

Jason Montoya (04:54)

From a personality standpoint, what aspects of your personality lend to the financial planning side of things?

Kassi Hyde (05:03)

I think there are two big pieces to that. The first is attention to detail. I love to event plan; I like to craft an experience for people. So when it comes to how I work with clients, I am very much into the psychology of what it's like to be on their side of the table, how they experience things, and how they feel about things. I’m a natural planner; I think ahead, I think of the details, and I think of the what-ifs. That, coupled with just the nature of really caring about people and wanting to work with them one-on-one, really lends itself well.

Jason Montoya (05:48)

So would you consider yourself more introverted or extroverted?

Kassi Hyde (05:53)

I am definitely an introvert. I surprise a lot of people when I tell them that, but when I'm out speaking or working with people on a larger level, I get worn out very quickly.

Jason Montoya (06:05)

So you can do it, but you draw your energy when you're by yourself, perhaps reading a book? For a while, you worked with your father. What type of business did he have, and how did that play out?

Kassi Hyde (06:12)

Yes, absolutely. It was very similar to what I'm doing now: personalized financial planning, tax planning, and investment management. He is a CPA, and I am not, so he was definitely more of the numbers-oriented one when it came to actual tax returns. We realized over the years that while it was great, he was eventually going to retire. I wanted to work with a larger team so I could have that vacation, take a break, and have other team members to lean on because life-work balance is really important to me. I want the freedom of being able to serve my clients as I need to but also be with my family. He eventually ended up selling the firm. I ended up with United Capital at the time, back in 2014. Since then, it's been a bit of a whirlwind. United Capital was sold to Goldman Sachs. Goldman Sachs then decided to sell United Capital's division, and they ended up selling it again to another firm, at which point we decided to go with Apollon Wealth.

Jason Montoya (07:56)

With all the transitions you went through, if someone's listening and they're at one of those points, what wisdom would you give them?

Kassi Hyde (08:17)

It can be very daunting. There's a big world of financial planning out there, and not all firms are the same. I tell my clients that your relationship with your financial advisor needs to be a personal one. You need to be able to ask any question and get the answer you need without any fear. I think that goes along with the firm you also work for. There's something to be said about having freedom and autonomy, but you also need oversight and guidance. Being alone in this industry is incredibly daunting with the regulations we deal with. So, having a firm like Apollon who can provide that guidance and due diligence on different resources is incredibly important. Times are changing fast. As advisors, we need to embrace that. This is a different world than even five years ago when it comes to finances. We just need to know that we're with a firm that supports that and gives us the resources we need.

Jason Montoya (09:19)

What are the values that Apollon has that really resonated with you in terms of choosing them?

Kassi Hyde (09:54)

I think it was the perfect balance of having freedom with oversight. It's not a firm that tells you what you need to be doing. They're really flexible in what you want your practice to look like. At the same time, they want to encourage and be supportive if you have growth goals. They're very open-minded. You can sit down and talk with the C-suite about what's important to you. I'd say one of the biggest things is that they are very open-minded and have an open door. All of the advisors are willing to lend a hand or give advice if they specialize in certain areas. We really have a network of advisors across the nation who are essentially all on our team. It was really important to have a network of other advisors for support and to know that they're supporting you to be the best you can be. It's meant to be personalized, not a cookie-cutter approach.

Jason Montoya (11:00)

Where does that desire for you to be so relational in your work derive from?

Kassi Hyde (11:38)

I think I'm very analytical, which comes naturally to what I do, but what really drives me is psychology. I love to understand how people think and feel and what drives that. We all have biases, and we all think differently. Understanding the reasons for that—why we might think about something, why we make the decisions we make—is so important. When I look at somebody and they've made a decision, I want to go behind that. I want to understand what was driving them because that's what really gets at who we truly are, and it also helps us adapt and change.

Jason Montoya (12:33)

This ties back to your point about not condemning people for how they feel. At the end of the day, we're creatures of desire. We want something, and the more honest we can be about what we want, the more helpful you can be.

Kassi Hyde (13:12)

Absolutely. Everybody has a trade-off. There's always something they want to spend more money on. For some people, it's a new car every couple of years. For others, it’s big vacations. For others, they just want a good solid cash balance sitting somewhere. Whatever is driving your decision-making, you just have to own that. There's no right or wrong. For me, it's about trade-offs. If you want this one thing, you may have to give up some of this other thing to have it.

Jason Montoya (13:58)

It seems like right now, we're in a season of having to make a lot of choices on trade-offs. Talk to us more about that.

Kassi Hyde (14:11)

It is an interesting world. People are making more money than they ever have, even kids straight out of college. Getting back to the fundamentals of how to build your financial lifestyle can be very overwhelming, especially for the younger generations. It is not the same for everybody. There are plenty of people who would like to retire very early. It’s financial freedom—the ability to maybe work very hard at a job you get weary of and be able to find another job that's very fulfilling to you but with making less money. The underlying fundamentals haven't changed. It really just comes down to the things that are in our face every day. It's easy to get wrapped up in what people have because that's all they're sharing. You're not seeing what they don't have. So I tell people to just take a step back. Just like when they walk in my door, I'm not judging them against the last person I saw. Everybody has a different story.

Jason Montoya (15:43)

On that note, when you think about the idea of living better, what does that mean to you?

Kassi Hyde (15:54)

I think living better means having freedom and balance. I just had a client tell me the other day that they felt incredibly free. They had worked hard their entire life and could now accomplish various things they never would have foreseen. That's the key. You can't always identify specific goals far in advance because life changes. At the end of the day, I feel like it's having freedom. Maybe it's the ability to take off a year and pursue new goals or hobbies. Maybe it's the ability to get that higher-level promotion you've really been wanting. Living better is being true to what you want and recognizing when maybe something isn't working out as you had intended. That's okay; you will find the road intended for you. I always say that you shouldn't regret what you've done in the past. That's what's made you, and God has a plan and a roadmap for you. Having the ability to make changes and decisions along the way without worrying about paying the bills is truly a financial freedom that comes with living better.

Jason Montoya (17:50)

You talk about freedom. I was talking to someone the other day about how their situation, their job, and their income made them feel like a modern-day slave. Even though they were getting paid, they just felt trapped. I think that's a lot of people, and we might be surprised that it's a lot of people who probably make a lot of money too. Talk to us about that.

Kassi Hyde (18:17)

It's funny you bring that up. I have had more conversations about that recently, and we're actually publishing an article on LinkedIn about transitions. Whether you're in a high-level position and it's just not working out, and you want more freedom or balance, or maybe it's just not the kind of work that creates passion for you, there are a lot of opportunities out there today—even more than there were 10 years ago. Going freelance, starting your own business, or just approaching work a little differently—employers are even more open-minded. We went through the pandemic and realized we could all work from home, and then we've kind of come full circle to know we need to come back together. There are benefits to both sides, and I think we've learned a lot. I tell people to talk to somebody about what you're thinking. Think about the elements of your day-to-day work that you love and the elements that you don't. How can you fine-tune those things? I think you'll find sometimes employers are even flexible with that because they recognize how much more they can get out of an employee when they're fully passionate about what they're doing.

Jason Montoya (19:37)

On the work side, what does it mean to work smarter? How do you think about working effectively and efficiently?

Kassi Hyde (19:54)

That's a great question. I think in a lot of ways, it’s just having processes in place. I will fully admit I do not have the best memory, so I have to have processes, notes, and systems in place so that I remember every conversation. I think working smarter means using the resources around you. One of the most life-changing exercises for me was when I was making a transition from supporting other advisors to managing my own book 100%. I spent probably three to four months documenting every 15 minutes of my day. It sounds very tedious, but it taught me about the time I spent on things. It opened my eyes to the time I was wasting and that I wasn't spending as much time on some things as I thought. Then I could look at that and say, "If I want to now add business development, I have this much time to devote. I can do this." It can open your eyes to time you're wasting or time you're spending on things that somebody else should be doing. It can also convince you that you are capable of a new project. The other key to this is you've got to empower the people you work with. Trust your team, see where their skills lie, and use that to work together.

Jason Montoya (22:11)

If someone wants that but they're more isolated, what advice would you give them?

Kassi Hyde (22:19)

There are a lot of tools out there, which can be hard to navigate. I encourage you to reach out and talk to your peers in your industry, even at different firms, and say, "Hey, I just really wanted your opinion on this." Especially when you're a solo entrepreneur, reach out to others. I think people are really willing to help and give feedback. So I'd say reach out to your community and ask for feedback on certain tools. There's a lot of new things out there, especially with AI, that can be really helpful and streamline a lot of processes.

Jason Montoya (23:31)

I think you're hinting at the idea that there's so much volume and noise that there's a high value for someone who sorts through that to get to what matters. That's kind of the essence of what you do for people. Talk to us about that idea of curation and guidance.

Kassi Hyde (24:06)

Yes. There is a lot of noise these days, especially in my industry. You can read about anything online and feel like you know everything about a topic. I'll have people bring something to me and say, "Hey, I read I can do this." And I'll say, "Yes, but actually you can't." They're not always familiar with the fine details or the trade-offs. For example, you're hearing all the time about 401(k) savings and all these new opportunities with pre-tax, post-tax, and Roth options. These are great conversations I'm having with clients. The key is understanding the trade-offs. Everybody is saying you need to have more money in your Roth IRA. That's great, but if you're in a high tax bracket and you stop doing the tax-deductible side of your 401(k), you're going to pay a lot more in taxes. You have to look at that trade-off. It doesn't fit for everybody. That's just one example of where you can't just take what you read and assume it's perfect for everyone.

Jason Montoya (26:11)

A word that comes to mind is trust. Talk to us about trust and how you foster it, not just relationally, but also in how you structure things.

Kassi Hyde (26:31)

A couple of things come to mind. I can't tell you how many times I've met with somebody who became a client and said, "My previous advisor wouldn't return my call for days." That’s not even part of who we are. We like to refer to our 24-hour rule, where you will hear from me within 24 hours, even if I don't have an answer. That is huge for a lot of people, just knowing they can find us relatively quickly.

Jason Montoya (27:03)

Even as a freelancer, that's one of the biggest differentiators. If you just respond to people within a day, you're already in the top 10%.

Kassi Hyde (27:23)

You're absolutely right. It amazes me that this is a struggle for people. Also, I recognize the big lift it is for people to put their trust in us. So I really try to curate that experience and the conversations we have. How do you like to communicate? How often do you want to communicate? I had one client who found it really difficult to make a shift. She was worried I would just take everything over and start doing things the way I wanted to without talking to her. Of course, that's not how I operate. I always tell people we're going to talk through the process until you get comfortable. Today she says, "I wish I did it sooner." You have to listen to people's experiences so that you can do better.

Jason Montoya (29:25)

Talk to us about the importance of mentoring in your story and transitions.

Kassi Hyde (29:46)

Mentoring is a huge thing, especially in our industry. You can know everything there is to know financially, but when you're dealing with people, that takes some time and skill. I've always looked to learn from everybody around me. I love to have a diverse team because everybody comes to the table with a different personality and approach. I never want to be the only voice in the room because I want to learn and get better from those around me. And just like I appreciate that, I love to pass that on to others. I've been through some unique situations that helped me learn the hard way, and it taught me a lot about dealing with people. I want to share that with others because it just means we all grow and get smarter and better at what we do.

Jason Montoya (30:52)

What has your career and work taught you about being a mother?

Kassi Hyde (31:01)

It's exciting to see my 16-year-old now start to take an interest in finance. I think he's really interested in how the world works. I would say you really have to keep up with the changing times. When raising kids, just when you think you figure them out, they change it all up. You just have to be willing to change and adapt. I think that's what parenting has taught me. And when you take that to work as well, it's okay to say you don't know the answer and that you'll find it. It's okay if you make a mistake to own it. It's okay to work with others who might make a mistake and be there to help guide them.

Jason Montoya (32:16)

The words that come to mind are pride and humility. Talk to us more about that contrasting dynamic.

Kassi Hyde (32:25)

It's important to always want to learn and grow yourself and to recognize that both professionally and as a parent. We're all human beings, and we have our moments when we need a little forgiveness. So I think just being very open-minded and humble is important.

Jason Montoya (32:34)

What prevents us from being humble like that?

Kassi Hyde (33:01)

It can be hard sometimes when you've been doing something for a very long time. You think you know everything, but at the same time, you often find that there's something you don't know. It's also hard to put ourselves in the shoes of our children because this world is very different than when we were kids. And I think that goes with really any generation in every situation, whether they're older or younger than you. Putting yourself in their shoes for a minute to understand where they're coming from doesn't mean you have to agree with everything, but it means you understand where they come from.

Jason Montoya (33:42)

Let's talk about stories. How have fictional or real stories shaped you as a person?

Kassi Hyde (34:14)

We recently did an event that focused on storytelling. We worked with 15 different women who we interviewed. The process of interviewing and learning their stories changed my perspective because I learned things I hadn't known before. I learned about what colored their life, where they came from, and who was important to them. So I'd say that was probably the most important thing I've learned. I don't know that there's any one specific story that really changed me, but I think following many different stories of people who look to be gracious in all they do has been impactful.

Jason Montoya (35:34)

What are some of the stories people tell themselves when it comes to finance that sabotage them?

Kassi Hyde (35:48)

Sometimes it can be time-oriented: "I've waited too long," or "I've got plenty of time to do that." It can also be a matter of perspective. Often enough, people come to the table concerned with, "I'm not smart enough. I should know more about this." Or, "I already know everything. I don't need somebody." Often enough, it's not the knowledge; it's honestly the navigation and getting it done. People come to us because they just don't have the time or energy to do the research.

Jason Montoya (36:47)

When someone comes to you with one of these self-sabotaging narratives, how do you help them untangle that?

Kassi Hyde (36:58)

Sometimes we'll use exercises that focus on our biases and why we think or feel the way we do about money. I'm often just asking questions. "What has your experience been with that? Why do you feel that way? Where did that idea come from?" Often enough, it's a personal experience with family or friends. Once we understand why they're thinking this way, we can figure out how we can either change that or just make them more comfortable with it.

Jason Montoya (37:45)

Talk to me about systems. How do you think about them and use them in your work?

Kassi Hyde (37:51)

In our industry, we deal with a ton of fine detail, so it's really important to have good systems in place. The fine line to building processes is making them as simple as possible but as robust as possible so that anybody can do it seamlessly. It makes a huge difference. Our teams need to know the same process is used for everybody so that I can potentially step away, and if somebody needs something, they can get an answer because of those processes.

Jason Montoya (38:53)

When does a system become tyrannical?

Kassi Hyde (38:58)

When there's no ability to change or improve. When it becomes so set in stone that we ignore that it's stopped solving a problem and has become more of a problem itself. At the end of the day, it needs to make things easier. If it's not, then there's something wrong.

Jason Montoya (39:11)

This theme of adaptability seems to be a part of your story. Talk to us about that.

Kassi Hyde (39:34)

My industry has changed a lot, and it's going to constantly change. I think that makes me embrace it even more. There are a lot of advisors out there who have been doing the same thing for years, and that's great, but we have younger generations who think differently because they've lived in a different world. I want to be able to see what they see and talk through that. There are a lot of fundamentals to financial planning that are not going to change anytime soon, but we have to change and adapt to how we get there.

Jason Montoya (40:14)

I recently read that one of the largest wealth transfers in history is unfolding between the aging generation and the millennials. Is that true, and what are your thoughts?

Kassi Hyde (40:42)

It is. We're seeing the baby boomer generation passing wealth on to the next generation. That's changing. The baby boomer generation is very smart about this. They see it coming and want to position their families better. They had their own experiences with their parents and may not necessarily want to repeat everything they went through. That means needing to speak the language of different generations. We work with a lot of multi-generational families, but it also means you have to be willing to change and rethink it. You can't do for the next generation what you did for the first. They think and feel differently and have different goals. The other big part of this is as women are becoming widowed, there's a lot of wealth transfer going on there. This is really near and dear to my heart because I feel often enough, it is still a situation where the wife was the spouse who wasn't as involved. While they want to make smart decisions, they're often told to just do what they're told. It means they're not getting to be part of that conversation.

Jason Montoya (43:26)

If that widow is watching, what advice would you give so they don't step on the landmines they're navigating?

Kassi Hyde (43:36)

I would say one of the biggest things is you need to have a personal relationship with the person you're working with. Don't be afraid to ask questions. Also, don't think you need to know every fine detail; that's what we're here for. You just need to be able to sit down with someone who will explain all the pros and cons so that you can make the decision. If someone is just telling you, "This is the way it's done," that's not helping you. You need to understand why. Your advisor should have the ability to explain why they're giving the advice they're giving. At the end of the day, this is your choice. As long as you understand the trade-offs, that's where the power lies.

Jason Montoya (44:55)

You shared a lot of insights. What additional words of wisdom would you give us?

Kassi Hyde (45:06)

I would say one of the biggest things is to own your own story. Don't let somebody write your story for you. Whether you've inherited money, a spouse has passed on, or you're just starting to build your story, own it. Look for the resources out there that are looking to help you, not just sell you something.

Jason Montoya (46:03)

If someone's interested in working with you, who would be a good fit, and what would be their next step?

Kassi Hyde (46:07)

You can look up Apollon Wealth and find us as individual advisors on the webpage. We're mainly on LinkedIn; we have a specific page, Apollon Peachtree Corners, where you can read about all the advisors. We have a no-fee consultation meeting where you can schedule some time with us to determine if it's a perfect fit.

Jason Montoya (46:49)

If someone's not on LinkedIn, is there another way to get those updates?

Kassi Hyde (46:53)

Absolutely. If you just go to the Apollon Wealth page, you'll find contact information where you can email us or call us.

Jason Montoya (47:00)

At what point in someone's life or career are they a good fit to work with you?

Kassi Hyde (47:08)

Typically, we are working with people who are within 15 years of retirement or closer, so mid-to-late 40s. It could be a situation where all of a sudden you have a lot coming in the door financially and you're not sure how to manage all of it. That's a great time to engage us because we will think of all the peripheral financial topics that maybe you hadn't discussed yet and really make sure that you're on task.

Jason Montoya (47:56)

Cool. Anything else?

Kassi Hyde (48:01)

This has been great!

Jason Montoya (48:02)

Well, I appreciate you sharing your life with us today. I'm Jason Scott Montoya, and this has been an episode of the Share Life Podcast.

Kassi Hyde (48:10)

All right, thank you.